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Fracking: A boon or a bust

Hydrofracking to release natural gas is growing at an incredible rate. I consider it unnecessary irreversible destruction that we shall regret. What are your thoughts? What is the justification?

One of my concerns these days is the single focus on MONEY. It seems that there are increasing numbers of people who will stop at nothing to amass wealth.

While the effects are being debated, I have not seen a valid argument in favor of Fracking that will justify what I consider to be inevitable destruction to our earth. I shall predict that within my lifetime, we shall see irreversible, dramatic and costly effects to our health and our water.

I am not particularly concerned that the resulting natural gas is causing a work stoppage in the coal industry but that is one more effect.

Do you consider yourself informed? What are your concerns or why do you lack concerns for Fracking? Would you want it in Maryland? Should it be allowed anywhere?

Jerry Kline November 29, 2012 at 07:43 pm
I consider myself well informed, particularly on this issue. My concerns about fracking are immense . . . I saw a TV documentary on fracking that showed a guy whose drinking water caught fire when lit with a match! The water was from his well, which had been polluted by the chemicals injected in the ground as part of the fracking process. I've never seen water catch fire before, but it was plain as day that his well had been poisoned. The practice should be banned in Maryland and everywhere else.
Richard Hertz November 30, 2012 at 04:20 am
Wow, you've really done your research. A TV documentary and an article by Rusty. Case closed.
Richard Hertz November 30, 2012 at 04:26 am
"I shall predict that within my lifetime, we shall see irreversible, dramatic and costly effects to our health and our water."
Even if, and that's a huge if, fracking affects water, water purification technology is becoming exponentially cheaper and easier. I'd like to see you explain in detail exactly what problems you expect to see "in your lifetime." I predict you're wrong. The world has seen doomsayers like you for centuries. The one thing they all have in common is that they've always been wrong.
Chris W November 30, 2012 at 11:26 am
So Rusty, how do you suggest we continue to power the the servers that allow patch to exist an contain your whimsical musings on the environment. What is the carbon footprint of your continual blog postings?
What is your solution? Nuclear? Drilling off our coasts? Drilling in Alaska? Importing from our "Friends" in the middle east? Wait, let me guess...... Solar &wind? People like you complain about we're we get our energy, and have no viable alternatives to offer. Solar and Wind are far less efficient than traditional fossil fuels. In addition, they require expensive and environmentally unfriendly storage systems because during times of peak demand the sun may not be shining and the wind may not be blowing. Perhaps we should all drive electric cars to lessen the demand for oil? Sounds good right? The only problem is that 42% of electricity generated in the US is from coal. 23% is from natural gas, 20% is from nuclear, and 7% is from hydro electric. The grand total from renewables? Less than 4%. My point is, rather than bloviating about what we should not be doing, why not provide some viable alternative.
Tim Lemke (Editor) November 30, 2012 at 05:35 pm
@Chris - Patch's servers are powered by me pedaling a stationary bicycle. Didn't you know? ;-)
number9dream November 30, 2012 at 05:42 pm
All points raised against fracking are just as valid against ALL alternative energy sources.
Man needs sources of energy, and as byproducts money will be made and destruction will ensue. "Collateral damage" if you will. But nothing like what will occur when the petrol runs out.
Chris W December 2, 2012 at 12:20 am
Well Tim, that would certainly be a low Carbon foot print if it were the case!
Rusty Vaughan December 5, 2012 at 11:38 pm
By the way, the name of the video is "Gasland". It is available through common video sources. I suggest it is worth the time to consider the presentation and information.
Richard Hertz December 6, 2012 at 03:41 am
I suggest you stop believing, without any critical thinking on your own, every stupid leftwing idea you find on the internet or television. Gasland is total crap propaganda. It's not worth anything. If you had any interest in truth over ideology you could easily find refutations of much of it.
http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/gasland-debunked http://www.energyindepth.org/debunking-gasland/ Heck, even your Liberal Bible knows junk reporting when they see it: http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/02/24/24greenwire-groundtruthing-academy-award-nominee-gasland-33228.html?pagewanted=all On a totally different topic, I just found out the Sasquatch really does exist!!! I just watched a video sighting, so it must be true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dJge36vIX8
Rusty Vaughan December 6, 2012 at 05:20 am
Richard, I invite you to stop posting if you don't want to speak constructively and without sarcasm and insults. I am happy to meet at the workshop in Baltimore then we can have the same source of information with which we can discuss reasonably.
I am out of town. When I return, I'll check out a couple of your links. If Gasland is not valid, I'll accept it. I do not pretend yet to be able to debate the value vs the danger of Fracking. That is not the context I presented. I'll round up fact and support later before I take action. My intent was to gather comments and intelligent discussion without sarcasm. Setting off explosives of that magnitude that far down will have to affect our aquifer in some situations. It is not reasonable to believe otherwise. It is those beliefs that motivate me to want to learn the truth. And, absent of complete unbiased data, there is too much risk to allow fracking in Maryland or anywhere else. I am not sure why you comment here at all. You surely so seem to be a very angry person everytime I post something. Perhaps you should begin a blog to vent yourself on the topics that anger you.
Chris W December 6, 2012 at 11:13 am
Any yet you completely ignore questions presented to you and are seemingly unprepared to counter reasonable points made that refute your assertions.
Richard Hertz December 6, 2012 at 11:32 am
Here's a tip for you for future posts: research first, post second.
I comment here to counter your extreme ignorance.
Tommy Warshaw III December 6, 2012 at 01:27 pm
Rusty,
While Richard does get a little heavy-handed with his sarcasm, his point still holds true that you have a very bad habit of making predictions or posting items as facts without any real backing for your arguments. You did that here and then you tried to back away from it. You write, "That is not the context I presented. I'll round up fact and support later before I take action." That is interesting since your first post included this statement: "I shall predict that within my lifetime, we shall see irreversible, dramatic and costly effects to our health and our water." Your mind was already made up as of your first post. You have nagging habit of making statements like that, while admitting that you really never did your thorough research. Your focus on Richard's sarcasm is merely an attempt to obfuscate the fact that you really didn't do your homework before making such a bold statement. It has been my observation though that this is par for the course with you: post a statement with very little factual backing, then find ways to pick apart people who point out your lack of actual research. "It is those beliefs that motivate me to want to learn the truth." It has also been noticed by many people on here that your only interest in truth is that which supports your particular bias. If you're not yet ready to debate the issue, I invite you to next time do your homework before making a post about it.
Rusty Vaughan December 8, 2012 at 04:31 am
There is not incentive to present a logical argument here. Most of those interested in posting are not interested in thinking but rather typing, labeling, and name calling. Read my initial statement. Was I suggesting that I know it all or was I rather asking for someone else who has information for or against to enter into a discussion.
I consider explosions miles down into the earth that are strong enough to release gas to be strong enough to divert and/or contaminate the aquifer. No I don't yet have data to present but neither do I have data to the contrary. What is wrong with a discussion and the submittal of data either way by those who know so I CAN better form an informed opinion. Simply logging on and going with "leftwing" "stupid idea" "crap propaganda" etc does not contribute to dialogue but rather shuts it down. Yes, absolutely, my mind is made up. I am convinced that fracking is irreversible destruction. But that doesn't mean that I am not open to reading information to the contrary. There are posts here from people with their mind made up with not information but still no logic. I am not really trying to convince you of anything. I really don't care whether you are in favor of fracking or not. I am trying to learn about fracking. I am interested in credible information either way even though I do have an opinion. I have seen tests in favor of fracking but they were all from entities paid by those who profit from fracking. And vice versa.
Rusty Vaughan December 8, 2012 at 04:49 am
I just noticed that a link I posted earlier in the week is still in the pending mode. Don't know why. There is a workshop at Univ of Baltimore on Saturday on Fracking. It is from 10 to 4. Might be a good place to get informed. http://mdfrackingconference.eventbrite.com/#
Chris W December 8, 2012 at 01:13 pm
Rusty,
I did not call you any names. I asked a series of questions. You can't talk about fracking in a vaccume. You need to discuss it in the wider context of meeting our energy needs. If you can present a reasonable argument on how this country can meet its energy demands without a heavy reliance on fossil fuels, I seriously would like to hear.
Rusty Vaughan December 9, 2012 at 04:16 pm
Chris, Pardon if your comment was sincere. I took it as sarcasm and decided not to address it. My short answer is Yes. I believe that solar and wind are long term answers and that before we allow Fracking in Maryland, we should cause an in depth study on the effects and validate that study before setting up guidelines for proceeding with fracking if at all in Maryland.
Natural Gas is a non-renewable resource with known and unknown side effects on health and on the environment. The Marcellus Shale formation was projected to provide gas through fracking for 45 years. I understand that with the current rate of permits and if a market increases, that could be revised to 20 years. I am sure those numbers are debatable.
Rusty Vaughan December 9, 2012 at 04:28 pm
There are guidelines and regulations for conventional fracking which was a straight vertical insertion relatively shallow. BUT the current UNconventional fracking is not regulated. That involves an insertion as much as 5000-8000 feet vertically then as much as 8000 feet horizontally. That is much more "invasive" an has the potential for much more toxic destruction during and after the explosion.
In Germany today as much as 35% of their electricity is from renewable resources. (An interesting bit of trivia is that approx 20% of our home energy is to heat water. That is one of the easiest needs to cut down via solar and via new heater replacements.)
Rusty Vaughan December 9, 2012 at 04:48 pm
Hey, Mr. Tommy, what in my opening statement gave cause for you to think that I was setting this up as a debate rather than a discussion to mutually share information?
What also caused you to believe that I have no knowledge on my subjects? Would it not be very arrogant to post information and to suggest that is all there is on a subject? I suggest that it is a popular mistake today to presume that the speaker does not know his subject just because he asked a question. It is often a tactic that a presenter will create a vacuum by asking that question and into it rush headlong all those... well... let's say .. who are less thoughtful.
Rusty Vaughan December 11, 2012 at 08:29 pm
Richard, Tommy, Chris, and Jerry, there is more than one scintilla of evidence available for your perusal. Before you believe too much of what you read either for or against, be sure to look at who wrote it and what financial interests they are serving.
Here is an event coming up where you can ask questions and get specific answers http://www.chesapeakeclimate.org/index.php?option=com_jevents&task=icalrepeat.detail&evid=231&Itemid=48&year=2013&month=01&day=09&title=frack-water-taste-test-in-annapolis&uid=600713e5d00ebabc59d2794725923345 Facts about Fracking you can read would be at www.marcellusprotest.org. They make some eye opening statements you can have in writing and research if you like. And finally, what impressed me the most was the families who have least, lived on or next to the Fracking site land. They put a booklet together with their stories. That booklet is available Steel Valley Printers, 107 East 8th Ave, Homestead, PA 15120. There is a charge for the 43 page book. I bought one and consider it a wealth of information to help learn more about the effects of Fracking.
Richard Hertz December 14, 2012 at 06:19 am
"Before you believe too much of what you read either for or against, be sure to look at who wrote it and what financial interests they are serving."
Man, if you could only practice what you preach. Are you naive enough to believe that the only interests that matter are financial interests? Do you think the families putting out their own brand of propaganda don't have vested interests, even if they're not financial? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324024004578173211776311982.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h The thing that bugs me the most about your posts is how you prance around pretending to be interested in truth, no matter where it takes you, all the while wearing blinders that lead you in only one direction...left. You're a leftist. Just admit it and be done with your feigned open-mindedness (if I'm wrong, and you really are open to non-leftist ideas, please provide citations where you started a dialog on the left and later changed to a non-left belief). You can't be all things to all people, but at least we can have an honest debate.
McGibblets December 14, 2012 at 11:48 am
"There is not incentive to present a logical argument here"
So you're confirming that incentives DO matter?
Richard Hertz December 28, 2012 at 04:44 pm
Speaking of the search for truth, Rusty, you would do well to take this article to heart.
http://blog.independent.org/2011/04/19/truth-and-freedom-in-economic-analysis-and-economic-policy-making/

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